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Thread: Guard Suggestion

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyfisterbotm View Post
    I just wanted to make a suggestion for the guard class. I know that a few may set back and disagree with me on this, but I think most will agree.

    The DT's in this game are just flat out rediculous for aggro now. They do rediculous dps, and have amazing aggro. I'm not going to complain too much about that.

    The Conq's have the ability to do amazing dps aswell, and have some really good tools to get aggro with no problem either.

    The guard has subpar dps in comparison to both, and it's aggro in most situations is adequate. But for higher end raiding "T4" the guards are just not up to par with the DT's or Conq's. Guards cant get the the aggro or dps like that of a DT, and are on par with a conq, but have no rez so a conq wins. If you increase the dps of a guard alot of people will complain on the pvp side. So I suggest this.

    Make Stall the Advance also lower your cool down of the hateful strikes ability, Decreasing this to every 45 seconds or min would really help the guard class alot in comparison to other high end DT's.
    That's not the answer. It would just aggro lock on the guard til death.

    They just need to up the inherent hate of the pole tree, or the dps of the jug tree, or some such. A few simple adjustments could do the trick.

    In truth, guard is just fine. Conq is OP and DT is way OP, especially on anything subject to magic damage. It's silly that 2 tank classes can top parses.

  2. #12

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    Agreed that both conqs(especially when they are the only class that can rezz in combat) and DT'S ( seriously over the top overpowered) are op'd. But, nerfing DT's and conqs will just create mass QQing by both said classes so boosting the soldier class that's lagging behind(guardian) might be the better alternative.

    One of the main thing that's wrong with guards is aggro generation. Boosting DPS(especially for s&s users) is probably the easiest way to fix this.

    A more novel approach may be to allow guards to use rest/bandage during combat( along with people who are standing right next to the guard) as long as they are not getting hit. This can be a "signature" ability of guards much like conq rezz and DT over 9000 super saiyan.

  3. #13

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    I will agree, the idea of lowering the HS ability via stall is a bad idea now. But the reason I think this now is the fact that someone pointed out it was a feated ability not passive. Soo, it would be really bad to have everything depend on stall and also lock in the fact of having to get HS within the build.

    Now for added dps for jugg, I'm not sure that would help a whole lot. I have seen guards almost double my dps done and never get aggro from me. I see it's more in the rotation and the types of combo's than the dps within the guard. Not saying dps doesn't help as it is, but the dps would have to be significant. Like 1k dps ish, I just don't see that happening.

    I liked the idea of what another guy said about increaseing the innate threat numbers behind the scenes. That would work np. But the fact still remains, yes guards can hold really good aggro etc. And for most players I have no issue. It's the players who really know what they are doing on the DT that I'm talking about. Equally talented players on each side, the DT will win every time.

    It's absurd that as a guard class I have to do as much as I'm doing to simply be an offtank for the main tanking DT who's doing just combo's and pops an irritate only when he wants it pulled back off of me. Meenwhile, I'm doing all I can do. Maybe gear will help in T4, but I seriously don't see it doing as much that is needed.

    And not to exploit the new GM of the game, but is he reading any of this?
    Last edited by kennyfisterbotm; 10th March 2013 at 15:11.
    Guards: Schou/Schoujr, DT: Mycroch, Conq: Kenfast, Barb: Sonofcronus, Sin's: Crazyassin/Daggerdick, Hox: Scorchnburn, Demo: Touchofdeath, Tos: Enslaveu, BS: Meballs

  4. #14

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    Most likely not, as a brand new GD he's got game stability issues/project design issues/ steam player monetization issues and just about 100 things before one relatively unpopular class issue even begins to get his attention.

  5. #15

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    The Fearless set really would help the Guards out a lot over having T3/BD because of all the additional crit chance, but when DTs scale so much better with that stat it's not a solution.

  6. #16

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    We DONT need a revamp.

    Guards need there S&B dps upped. This is no way will break pvp as polearm will still do more dps then s&b and be the choice of pvp guards. A simple 10% increase to combos would be a good start. And since our dps is so low it wouldnt break anything. That would mean more hate generation and easier leveling for the sub 80s. It would also show if more needs to be done in terms of innate hate.

    It would be nice if StA did more than what it does. For a major perk it doesnt compare to the OP VOM effect(which really does need a nerf) but wont get 1.

    Polearm doesnt need more dps and doesnt need more hate. We have multi specs now. Pve tank in jugg. pvp/general pve in tempest.

    Simply stop being so stubborn and learn to play both specs and learn when to use them.
    Last edited by Aylis; 11th March 2013 at 00:51.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylis View Post
    We DONT need a revamp.

    Guards need there S&B dps upped. This is no way will break pvp as polearm will still do more dps then s&b and be the choice of pvp guards. A simple 10% increase to combos would be a good start. And since our dps is so low it wouldnt break anything. That would mean more hate generation and easier leveling for the sub 80s. It would also show if more needs to be done in terms of innate hate.

    It would be nice if StA did more than what it does. For a major perk it doesnt compare to the OP VOM effect(which really does need a nerf) but wont get 1.

    Polearm doesnt need more dps and doesnt need more hate. We have multi specs now. Pve tank in jugg. pvp/general pve in tempest.

    Simply stop being so stubborn and learn to play both specs and learn when to use them.
    I agree S&B dps needs to be upped. Both other soldier classes received significant dps increases when they were revamped, it makes sense that Guards should get that too to level the playing field. 10-15% seems reasonable.

    No hate for polearm though, that's where we part company. If pole is only for pvp or general(non-tanking PVE) then it would have to be argued that the same should be said about carnage conqs and tali Dts. But most things can be tanked with both those builds, so sorry this is a silly argument.

    The reason we have multi specs, imo, is to offer choice of playstyle. Not to have a PVE and a PVP spec. I know plenty of guards who would choose to run pole spec to tank if it were a viable option, but its not.

    A slight increase in hate mods on flashing arc(make them the counterpart to overreach in terms of hate generation), making intimidating shout as viable as CoH(rather than its nerfed ginger cousin) and adding a feated combo for pole that's similar, in terms of hate build, to shield strike would do it.

    If they wanna get really fancy add a combo that does bleed dots similar to the conqs bloodbath or bloodhack(whatever its called). then there's a rotation polearm can use for pure dps as well and there's not the huge distance between guards and other soldier classes(but really this shouldnt be needed cause disarming aggression should ensure that this isnt needed.)

    Then you have a viable 2 spec tanking class and a pole build that can still be specced for PVP.
    Last edited by torinach; 11th March 2013 at 01:22.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylis View Post
    We DONT need a revamp.

    Guards need there S&B dps upped. This is no way will break pvp as polearm will still do more dps then s&b and be the choice of pvp guards. A simple 10% increase to combos would be a good start. And since our dps is so low it wouldnt break anything. That would mean more hate generation and easier leveling for the sub 80s. It would also show if more needs to be done in terms of innate hate.

    It would be nice if StA did more than what it does. For a major perk it doesnt compare to the OP VOM effect(which really does need a nerf) but wont get 1.

    Polearm doesnt need more dps and doesnt need more hate. We have multi specs now. Pve tank in jugg. pvp/general pve in tempest.

    Simply stop being so stubborn and learn to play both specs and learn when to use them.
    I'm sorry but simply adding 10% more dps is not going to do crap to the S/B guard. Do this, feat into sustained rage and go try it out, and then feat out of it. See how much it doesn't affect anything.

    The reason S/B holds as good aggro as it does isn't based on the dps of the class at all, it's based off the innate threat within the combo's. Thats why guards who don't use guard destroyer often usually suck on aggro. If you really think it's "dps" thats going to make or break the guard, look at the next parse. When you see your guard doing maybe 4-500 dps tops, and you see a sin doing 2k dps. Think to yourself, hate% x guard dps = how much, and -hate% x sin dps = how much. The math doesn't compute at all!

    Case and point, simply adding a small amount of dps to a guard isn't really going to do crap. You either need to add alot of dps to the guard class for this to affect something, or as earlier stated. Increase the innate threat of some of the abilities.
    Guards: Schou/Schoujr, DT: Mycroch, Conq: Kenfast, Barb: Sonofcronus, Sin's: Crazyassin/Daggerdick, Hox: Scorchnburn, Demo: Touchofdeath, Tos: Enslaveu, BS: Meballs

  9. #19

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    Haha. If those suggestions for Tempest were added, there wouldn't be a single Jugg Guard on Set who could keep up with me going 50%. I'm sorry, but that's just way too much. There's a simple solution for every problem. Give Enduring Defense a passive 3-5% hate modifier, change Provoke into something useful (say, 10% hate, 10% weapon damage, -3% to -5% mitigation so you have to choose a good situation to use it in) and everyone goes home happy. It's a boost in the right direction without stepping too far out of line. If more is needed in the future, then those numbers can be tweaked further down the road.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyfisterbotm View Post
    I'm sorry but simply adding 10% more dps is not going to do crap to the S/B guard. Do this, feat into sustained rage and go try it out, and then feat out of it. See how much it doesn't affect anything.

    The reason S/B holds as good aggro as it does isn't based on the dps of the class at all, it's based off the innate threat within the combo's. Thats why guards who don't use guard destroyer often usually suck on aggro. If you really think it's "dps" thats going to make or break the guard, look at the next parse. When you see your guard doing maybe 4-500 dps tops, and you see a sin doing 2k dps. Think to yourself, hate% x guard dps = how much, and -hate% x sin dps = how much. The math doesn't compute at all!

    Case and point, simply adding a small amount of dps to a guard isn't really going to do crap. You either need to add alot of dps to the guard class for this to affect something, or as earlier stated. Increase the innate threat of some of the abilities.
    Sustained rage is weapon damage and i agree it doesnt much. Im talking 10% to the actual combo damage which would be much more. If each move of a combo does 10% more damage thats significant over a long (boss) fight. If the formula 1dps = 1 hate is true this 10% will add up.

    Yes i know innate combo hate generates most of our hate but will they really fool around with that ?

    Would it solve the problem i dont know, but it would be a step in the right direction. Jugg guard dps is a joke compared to other soldier class tank specs.

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