Joel Boyles - Advanced PVP Advice

[mrcorp]

It doesnt have to be power progression for pvp. There are suggested alternatives, like ranks, achievements, stats etc. <Lack of these things, lack of PvPers.

I disagree. Badges wont bring pvpers back. 4 maps in 5 years? Unbalanced classes? Sieges never worked right? Open world objectives?

But achievements and badges are xbox. I think you are playing the wrong game IMO.

[Azmith]

equalize all purple gear across all tiers when dealing with pvp. Very easy to implement: Gear will have two sets of stats. One that is taken in to account in pve, and ignored in pvp. One that is taken in to account in pvp, and ignored in pve(this one would be the same on all purple gear, so the differences between pve t1/pvp t1 and pve t4/pvp t3 is simply cosmetic). Only people that are going to complain about this are pve players that think their gear should equate win in pvp... That attitude is piss poor, and terrible for pvp... Power creep is fine in pve, not pvp.

Aa: The bigger issue, but harder to fix. I'd say have something similar to the first idea, with some modification. In pvp, have all the base aa(first tier) auto applied when fighting a player. Unlocking it should only be applied to pve. What this means is that in pve, you will have to spend aa points as before. However, when dealing with pvp, they will all be enabled by default at max. This equalizes it across the board, and lets fresh 80s become competitive.

There was also a suggestion i read here that i thought was kind of neat, where the first point in an aa would bring you 4/5ths of the way to the max stat, and the last 4 points would be .2 of the stat... So aa 1 at max = +5% damage.. 5 points.. 1st point would be 4%, 2nd would be 4.2%, 3rd 4.4% etc. This is a great idea that would lower the disparity quite a bit.

Arenas: We have arenas in place now, but they aren't what one would consider an arena in the modern sense... They are private. I think the pvp community would love public arenas available to all players even if not in a guild. These/this arena would have a lower section or "pit" where the fighting happens, and raised stands(with an invisible wall obviously) for people to watch. In this fashion, it would not be a far stretch to add betting, leader boards, leagues etc for anything ranging from 1v1, group fights, to monster battles(each wave becomes increasingly more difficult). Put one of these in each hub city, and one out in khitai somewhere. Once a "season" have all the leaders from each arena fight in a grand tournament where funcom can offer prizes(be they cosmetic or not, maybe a bit of fc points even for the top dog). This would foster competition and would be awesome.

Fix sieges <--- big big big issue. Fixing the aa/gear disparity would go a long way to balancing the sieges, and may draw in more players. Last siege i played in was riddled with bugs... Groups breaking up, allies turning red, lag lag lag. Fc already knows what the main issues are here though, so i won't get too much in to it.

More points of interest to capture and hold across all zones in the game. Don't just throw them in some border kingdom where they won't see traffic. Traffic is a good thing, even if they aren't there to pvp. It puts it right in the spot light, and gives people a sense of "maybe i should throw in my weight and help one side or the other". On pve servers, you could have an npc for each side standing around where the player can speak to them, and be asked if they would like to help(much like a quest). Selecting "yes" would flag you for pvp by the other side of the conflict while in that zone. Should you stand around too long unflagged in a certain area, it will auto flag you(prevents griefing, but note, that the area in question is designed only for the objective, so you have no business standing around there unflagged anyway ). In this way, you can ensure that both rule sets are getting the same content, even if it's placed in a non pvp enabled zone on a pve server. Don't want to pvp? Don't talk to the npc or stand around the objective areas.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head, but i think they are fairly viable and can be implemented well with a team of devs willing to put in the work to ensure the execution is solid.


All and all, the combat system is there, and makes aoc stand out as is as far as pvp-ability. Just remember, introducing power creep and grinds is not how you foster pvp or keep the subs. This game was at it's highest pvp point when gear meant jack ****, and sieges and open world pvp were happening because of rivalries that developed naturally through territory disputes, not because of xp grind and item lust.

The biggest thing that will increase the pvp longevity of this game, in conjunction with fixing the disparity issues, is keeping a steady flow of new players coming in to the game. That's on marketing/promotion. Keeping these players and having them sub would be a lot easier if the disparity issues were fixed, also, but it is still mostly a marketing issue.
Feel free to pm me for a job interview joel, i got a million more

Adding* Class Balance(not naming any one class, but some have way too much survivability for the amount of DPS they are doing. Balancing is a neverending work in progress though, so I left it out of the original post)

[Sarcopthes]

I think you are playing the wrong game IMO.

I would call it golden sentence. There were a lot of ppl interested in aoc part of pvp - and they realized they played wrong game, often/also because of need of grind. But that clearly shows that skill balanced pvp has huge potential and if going pve grind way - most of ppl would just realize they play wrong game. Mature players with limited time dont want to play korean style grind mmo as well.

[yuisoku]

Sarcop don't waste your time, they don't wan't to AoC get more players if they think current balance ~ progress ~ time that way

[SlightlyMad]

I disagree. Badges wont bring pvpers back. 4 maps in 5 years? Unbalanced classes? Sieges never worked right? Open world objectives?

But achievements and badges are xbox. I think you are playing the wrong game IMO.

Stop with the xbox thing everywhere. PvE's purpose is to be more powerful. PvP's purpose is to be better/best among players who have equal condition; PvPers beggin FC to make that happen for years.

So you're a pve player who doesnt want to loose grinded pve stuff/aa not to be available in pvp and you like to reign over undergeared/AAed players in PvP. You made it clear. Your pupose here is done.

[mrcorp]

Stop with the xbox thing everywhere. PvE's purpose is to be more powerful. PvP's purpose is to be better/best among players who have equal condition; PvPers beggin FC to make that happen for years.

So you're a pve player who doesnt want to loose grinded pve stuff/aa not to be available in pvp and you like to reign over undergeared/AAed players in PvP. You made it clear. Your pupose here is done.

I only pvp. I have no pve gear. I disagree with you. You can't seem to debate past name calling. Gg.

[Chaman-bourru]

Stop with the xbox thing everywhere. PvE's purpose is to be more powerful. PvP's purpose is to be better/best among players who have equal condition; PvPers beggin FC to make that happen for years.

So you're a pve player who doesnt want to loose grinded pve stuff/aa not to be available in pvp and you like to reign over undergeared/AAed players in PvP. You made it clear. Your pupose here is done.

When i read you guys i sometimes have the feeling i'd need to have a full khitai gear, PvP 10, almost full AA and of course a T4 weapon to start pvp.

I exagerate but i find your focus on "balance" a bit too important. Yes you need gear but no you don't need that much. If you're here for a bit of everything it goes pretty fast too get there. I'm all for giving a boost too newly 80 players. But not for completly removing the progression because i find enjoyable the progression curve, feeling your character getting more powerfull as you master it better and get new gear and AA.

[SlightlyMad]

When i read you guys i sometimes have the feeling i'd need to have a full khitai gear, PvP 10, almost full AA and of course a T4 weapon to start pvp.

I exagerate but i find your focus on "balance" a bit too important. Yes you need gear but no you don't need that much. If you're here for a bit of everything it goes pretty fast too get there. I'm all for giving a boost too newly 80 players. But not for completly removing the progression because i find enjoyable the progression curve, feeling your character getting more powerfull as you master it better and get new gear and AA.

Nobody asks for complete removal of progression but doing only pvp(no bori) is slow as hell at gaining AAs. Making PvP AA gain much faster(10x like Sarcop suggested)and making pve gear, pve only would be a start while giving everyone the pvp t1 set for free at lv80(maybe at lv20/auto-levelling gear).... -Whaat? This has been suggested a hundred times already?..

And mrcorp, go on about your word play and have fun with your 3 button class.

[Chaman-bourru]

Nobody asks for complete removal of progression but doing only pvp(no bori) is slow as hell at gaining AAs. Making PvP AA gain much faster(10x like Sarcop suggested)and making pve gear, pve only would be a start while giving everyone the pvp t1 set for free at lv80(maybe at lv20/auto-levelling gear).... -Whaat? This has been suggested a hundred times already?..

Making PvE gear PvE only is a bad idea. Khitai gear is much better and much faster to get, at least a lot of parts, than PvP T1.

[Sarcopthes]

http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpos...0&postcount=77


This is my suggestion and as SlightlyMad said - there is nothing about removing progress.

Suggestion contains tips how to shorten a gap between veteran and newbie, and to improve pvp AA progress so it would be on pair with pve progress. PVP minigame AA gain should be similiar as AA gained from PVE KK hardmodes.

Making PvE gear PvE only is a bad idea. Khitai gear is much better and much faster to get, at least a lot of parts, than PvP T1.

this is what I mean: if you just hit lev 80 - and you are pvp player - you will be rewarded better to play pve: you will much better gear by playing hardmodes, much better weapon than playing t1,t2,t3 raids or even solo questing, you will get a lot of AA - so during the same time pvper will be having mixed blue/pvp t1 epics while pveer full khitai gear , weapon which will probably better than pvp 10 and a lot of AA.
Character progress for pvp player and pve player should be same or easier for pvper.

I would like to change a gap between newbie and veteran because I think that it would make game much more attractive for new pvp players and I hate minigames when I have to play against or with players who are useless. With current signup system it is just a lottery - and it looks like player who just hited lev 80 - shouldnt play pvp - he is useless and most of other players will shout at him to leave game. Ofcourse he might do hardmodes but we are talking about potential funcom client who isnt interested in pve and doesnt want to be forced. It isnt encouraging to stay in aoc if you are pvp focused.

about pve stats: maybe I didnt make it clear but actually I suspect that you just didnt read my suggestion post - I would like to add pve stats only to next tiers of pve weapons - to avoid situation where T5 raid will be implemented and again T5 gear will be the best OP option for pvp.

to be clear: I am against giving pve stats only for pve gear. I think that pve gear should be on pair as pvp game for pvp but not stronger and definately not easier/faster to get. Imo it is important to make minigames more accessible so that dedicated pve players shouldnt feel underpowered but atm we have just totally opposite.

In regard to pvp gear - if there would be no crafting revamp- I would also suggest to make pvp t1 gear accessible at pvp 1 level and introduce new pvp t 1,5 gear which would be same as pvp t2 gear but without tenacity - only gold needed to buy it.

plz read my suggestion, I know this is long post but discussing about it when havent read might be a bit confusing.