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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarhal View Post
    Fixing broken mechanics and moving feats is all good ofc, but buffing necro more, u guys seems playing own AoC :E

    Necro is already in really strong state, Funcom crew should be really super carefull and wise with tweaking/revamping such class.
    100% agree

    necro is THE strongest dps class, even just rearranging feats is a slight buff (as you can build better specs^^), additionally buffing some spells is just too much.

    the revamp should be focused around making the gameplay more interesting and diverse not making nec stronger.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarhal View Post
    Gelid Bones is hard question again, adding more dots to necro, will empower bursting damage so its not a really good option, maybe buff/rework additional feats to more potent snare, faster cast time, and some cunning situational effect, also could be merged somehow with precious life leech.


    About Grip, yeah this changes like adding it to Death God list, is fine, this one need some buff.
    just some observation if you dont mind

    main thing for gelid bones to add a dot would be to make shatter more usuable in pve, in pvp if you feat touch of winter you can detonate it with shatter, so for me if it added a curse or even detonate elemental torment or a dot would bring more interesting mechanics rewarding knoledge of class vs placing dots+icestrike spam.
    would realy like to have more dots to detonate.
    ofc this should be made with care class already has enough dps, so maybe here stage's sugestions about adding more curses/debuffs would come in order, like instead of shatter detonating a damage burst would place a nasty curse rendering target more vulnerable or dealing less damage.

    to be totaly fair i would rather have more curses then a resurrection of grip of death wich was very op back in a day when no one had protection or any aa's and a lot less health.
    realy would prefer more detonating mechanics and curses vs easy mode 1 button skill like demo's wave of fail.

    so just to make sure there is no language barrier more curses/dots/detonating mechanics better then bringing back grip of death

    about iceshackle i simply gotten so use to it being instant i would realy enjoy very much to have at least its cast reduced via feats to 0.5 secs no less no more. it was back in a day a realy needed mechanic wich is very intune with nightfall feel of play.

    i think 2 major things needed to make necro's better performing is 2 key things

    .2-3 minutes cooldown ritual of lich

    .tome of epithur to 4-5 minutes cooldown to reuse
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  3. #13

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    Just kill Flesh to Worms when the Necro dies; there's no need to reduce its duration. Then there'd be more of an incentive to go kill the Necro, rather than whine about it in a corner.

    Reduce bombs to a max of 500dmg per. Taking a maximum of 4k is acceptable. Players shouldn't have to take a death every time they have bad Conqs and keyboard turners on their team.
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by geNius- View Post
    Just kill Flesh to Worms when the Necro dies; there's no need to reduce its duration. Then there'd be more of an incentive to go kill the Necro, rather than whine about it in a corner.

    Reduce bombs to a max of 500dmg per. Taking a maximum of 4k is acceptable. Players shouldn't have to take a death every time they have bad Conqs and keyboard turners on their team.
    removing any dot with death of caster removes point of existence of dots to begin with.

    its illogical to remove any dots upon death, else you want to start removing heals on target upon death of healer.

    fact is simple there are plenty of dots on every class most last 10-15 secs necro dots should be lasting max 15-20 secs that simple.

    implementing any measure like removing dots by death of caster will just reward coward behavior in pvp with necros hidding and send necrotic bombs and placing ftw.
    necrotic bombs are worthless in every aspect of their existence.

    besides that not reducing by half duration of it wont change that people miles away trying to pick up a flag will still have dot runing 42 secs.

    Edited by Arishanya to remove impolite language. Please refer to the Social Guidelines before posting.
    Last edited by Arishanya; 2nd April 2013 at 19:57.
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by noite80 View Post
    removing any dot with death of caster removes point of existence of dots to begin with.
    Does it? So Necros should continue to be rewarded for casting a few DoTs and then dying?

    Quote Originally Posted by noite80 View Post
    its illogical to remove any dots upon death, else you want to start removing heals on target upon death of healer.
    That would be true if i didn't specifically only say 'Flesh to Worms'.

    Quote Originally Posted by noite80 View Post
    fact is simple there are plenty of dots on every class most last 10-15 secs necro dots should be lasting max 15-20 secs that simple.
    Just how simple is it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by noite80 View Post
    implementing any measure like removing dots by death of caster will just reward coward behavior in pvp with necros hidding and send necrotic bombs and placing ftw.
    necrotic bombs are worthless in every aspect of their existence.
    Necros already do that. There is no reason to adjust DoTs, other than FtW. As it is now, Necros can finish a mini at, say, 20-10. A Necro who dies 10 times in a mini is effectively getting farmed, but since FtW ticks while they're dead, they end up with kill credit and never understand that they're actually bad. You remove FtW on deaths, and there's your incentive to get better and be useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by noite80 View Post
    besides that not reducing by half duration of it wont change that people miles away trying to pick up a flag will still have dot runing 42 secs.
    We can save the 'flagbot woes' discussion for another thread.

    Edited by Arishanya to remove impolite language and trolling remarks. Please refer to the Social Guidelines before posting.
    Last edited by Arishanya; 2nd April 2013 at 19:59.
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  6. #16

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    you seem not to able to recognize that a 42 seconds dot is extreme especialy given its can be spread with minor damage but same impact and lenght with infestation removing dot on death will only cause necros to be chaced even more often and will continue to reward coward behaviour even further for what should be obvious reasons.

    for multiple reasons main one being fairness ftw duration being halved is best solution along side nerfing duration of motd to 20 secs as well, outcome would be stoping ftw being the minigame objectives nuisance it is now and ofc minimizing the kill steal fenomenon wich is due to ill count of damage on target.
    all that would be achieved by halving motd+ftw+infestaion duration to 20 secs max, somewaht is making them be the same as pestilential blast duration 15 secs by default and 20 secs with aa's.

    meaning nerf to dots would be achieved without making possibly game breaking changes to gameplay wich would derive from removing any dot from death of caster, would have added bonus of making motd more eficient by having its lenght shortened thus way granting last tick heal more frequent and relevant.

    and indeed general tree is a must for purge for minigames, world pvp/duels its unneeded to even get general tree, given pets are more eficient in duels against multiple classes.

    in minigames pets simply arent eficient at all and not getting purge makes you even easier prey for sins.

    i realy have no will to be barbaricaly against you or people that think like you.
    i merely wish to point out that removing any dots upon death would bring a bigger "target first" tag to necros while not realy solving any of the issues related to ftw, while solution wich should be simpler to shorten lenght of duration of dots is by far fairest and lest agravating to gameplay.

    it no chalenge to imagine that upon implementing this remove dot on death of necro outcome would be further agravating the coward rewarding tactics of hidding dotting sending pets.

    basicaly an experienced necro managing to stay alive would still be able to prevent capturing flags miles away eiher from direct dotting or by infestation.

    so yes i have yet to be presented by any logicaly valid argument to defend dot removing upon death and your no exception so far.

    i merely ask you to instead of antagonize for antagonizing sake try and add logic arguement and rationalize either a better defense or to think about reasons i state to defend halving motd+ftw+infestation to be max 20 secs lenght.

    i realy have no interest in upon event of revamp making necromancer flavor of the month class like conq is atm, i merely seek to have improvements to necromancer and balancing where its needed.

    i feel very strong points that realy need to be adressed in pvp, and only for pvp, is extreme duration of ftw+infestation, albeight infestation doesnt deal same damage as ftw it still has the same interrupting factor to capping points in j.sag or picking a flag.

    i do many minigames wich i realy dont die often and reaplying dot isnt a real endevour at all, so i repeat an experienced necro would further try and avoid death just to have extra lenght ftw +infestion.

    so again again and again removing dots on death would just fix if necro was being farmed at rez pad wich certainly inst a fun experience and would be end result for many necro players and still exp player would manage to stay alive and cast 42 secs dot wich could be reaplied via infestation for another 30-40 secs so issue would not be fixed!!!

    while again simplest solution is if all dots infestation included lasts max 20 secs!!! there will be a lot less kill stealing from ill counting based on dps done and issues with picking flag/points minimized roughly by half without adding an extra bonus target like you sugest to necromancer class, also its obvious that halving dot the shamefull tactic with necros sw in corners hidding simply wouldnt achieve a kill for most part at least.


    now you didnt mention necrotic bombs so go ahead and make them, look a good mechanic worth maintaining, because for me they are smelly no skill floating orbs wich are nothing but a stupid nuisance, and like i sugested would be far more user friendly to have any minion explodable with a higher countdown to blow another one given currently you can blow up a bomb every 5 secs.

    so please i would like to hear you embelish the floating orb time bombs.

    Edited by Arishanya to remove impolite language. Please refer to the Social Guidelines before posting.
    Last edited by Arishanya; 2nd April 2013 at 20:01.
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  7. #17

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    You shouldn't be calling for extreme class nerfs just because you happen to be on another class and find it to be annoying (in PuG minis, no less).

    I couldn't care less about FtW on Necro/ToS/Bear/DT, unless there happens to be two Necros and I have no healer. FtW is nothing more than an annoyance, for the most part, and the only thing we're talking about is adjusting them so that useless players aren't kill-stealing all day.

    Quote Originally Posted by noite80 View Post
    now you didnt mention necrotic bombs...
    Yes I did.

    Edited by Arishanya to remove impolite language and trolling remarks. Please refer to the Social Guidelines before posting.
    Last edited by Arishanya; 2nd April 2013 at 20:01.
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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by geNius- View Post
    You shouldn't be calling for extreme class nerfs just because you happen to be on another class and find it to be annoying (in PuG minis, no less).

    I couldn't care less about FtW on Necro/ToS/Bear/DT, unless there happens to be two Necros and I have no healer. FtW is nothing more than an annoyance, for the most part, and the only thing we're talking about is adjusting them so that useless players aren't kill-stealing all day.



    Yes I did.
    so where is your logic defense of how ftw should remain to last 42 seconds?

    so where is you reasons to suport the existence of necrotic bombs?

    you seem immune to logic all you seem to defend is this absurd and ill founded lobby to remove all dots from necromancer because they are annoying and kill steal.

    halving all necromancer dots to last 20 secs max isnt a nerf at all.
    its a justified adjustment to spells wich after last revamp wich nerfed to extinction grip of death paved way to this awkward gameplay i see in many noobs and not so noobish players to realy just do this:

    dot ftw+motd send pets and hide in corner sw. and keep resending pets and ocasionaly pop out of corner to dot again.

    i am totaly against this facilitated way of gameplay necromancer class allows wich rewards kills to stupid faulty gameplay mechanics.

    easy fix to this is again:

    halve duration all necromancer dots
    decrease range of control of pets
    remove necrotic bombs


    these are the needed "nerfs" necromancer class needs to stop kill stealing+flag picking up stupid consequence of longuest dots in all of aoc.

    none of these 3 adjustments will make gameplay worse for any experienced necromancer but will surely fix the above mention problems without any cripling whatsoever to the class it self.

    and further more the only extremist view here is yours and your friends wich seek to truely cripple class by having all dots removed upon death wich like i mentioned several times and with logical arguements isnt the way to go in all fairness
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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenic View Post
    hahaha I lol'd here.

    its clear you don't have any clue who he is
    what i know is its a person immune to logic wich presents no logical arguments apart from insults instead of any interesting debate or creative ideas.
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  10. #20

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    some interesting and valid arguments from both points of view.

    My 2c.
    Dots should not end on death.
    Reasoning being that :
    1)there are no other class mechanics that end when a player dies (that i know of).

    2) A lot of damage the necro does comes from d.o.t skills. Stopping this on death could mean that a significant proportion of damage is negated.

    FTW duration should only be reduced slightly (i wouldnt advocate 1/2) - maybe to 30 seconds.
    Reason being that :
    1)as in pont 2 above, the damage the necro does is over time - there are not a lot of direct damage abilities like the ranger or demo that would allow for stationary fighting. There is great burst potential, but this takes time to set up and i beleive enforces a more hit-and-run playstyle for the necro. Plus i really dont want to be a direct damage caster, necros have a niche - i would play a demo if i wanted to be a big hitter.

    2)i dont beleive in the necro 'kill-stealing'. 8000 damage over time is the same as 8000 in 5 seconds. If a player has to heal through it then you have forced them to use something they may not have had to do otherwise. A player may take 20,000 damage and not die from dots, if another player comes along and kills them with 12,000 damage then the kill should be given to the necro. A kill does not have to count from the time the players health is at full to zero within the last x seconds. Many will disagree with this im sure .

    Agree with removing bombs. Terrible pets.

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