Page 17 of 20 FirstFirst ... 71314151617181920 LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 191

Thread: UPDATED: How to PVE CONQ

  1. #161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boesch View Post
    This has as many credible sources as "don't attack while burn skin is up", ie none
    I happen to know the people that tested the numbers they posted and they wouldn't post anything if they didn't test it thoroughly.

    Apart from that I believe you about the barb sword having more aggro. I've talked to some other main conqs that know their stuff and they all say the same thing.

    In a fight the +weapon damage can go much further then the things you mentioned Shax. Apart from the obvious passive buffs, most classes can give you temporary weapon damage buffs when you are in group with them. Barb/BS(vision and rune of aggression)/Ranger/Demo(caco and unholy hate)/guard/other conqs and I'm sure I forgot some.
    During a fight I think your weapon damage could be as high as an average of +100%. In that case it would explain why people consistently experience the barb 2H having a bit higher aggro.

    Thanks for the help again guys. I'll stick with barb one most of the time unless I need to get more survivability.

  2. #162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Caudilloo View Post
    In a fight the +weapon damage can go much further then the things you mentioned Shax. Apart from the obvious passive buffs, most classes can give you temporary weapon damage buffs when you are in group with them. Barb/BS(vision and rune of aggression)/Ranger/Demo(caco and unholy hate)/guard/other conqs and I'm sure I forgot some.
    During a fight I think your weapon damage could be as high as an average of +100%. In that case it would explain why people consistently experience the barb 2H having a bit higher aggro.
    Yes of course, it can peak a lot higher, but have not paid attention just how high. Just flat footed out of combat, my Conqueror has +118%. With Heroic Banner and Volcanic Rage it goes up to 168%. Mocking Sneer adds 20% further whenever in a fight. The thing though is that hate rating goes across all of the gear not only the weapon. So what I wrote in the follow up to my calculation post would be something like...

    My Conqueror usually has around 900 dps in instances, sometimes more, sometimes less. With 13,3% hate, that would according to the dev generate "invisible hate dps" of 26,6% on top of those 900, making the agro limit of what you can hold (if the agro taker has 0% hate). Calculating this stuff is hard, because there are so many hidden mechanics in play. Some combos do more hate than others, like Shield Slam versus Tortage Sweep combo... That list made by pekka has had an impact on what my rotation is, and in regard to what shitty gear my Conq has, I can hold or lock agro against tanks with better gear. A few months back, I did Palace of Yun Rau with a Demo that produced 1900 dps, I did around 1100 dps on the Conqueror, and held agro just fine.

    Finding out where the balance is, is not easy. 6,5 difference of the base dps of a weapon, contrary to the hate increase. It is agro level we are talking about. The dps is higher on the Thrice Howled Edge, everyone can see that...

    Similarities to whether it is worth with Ibis + Bels Mirth over just having Blossoming Death for a DT. I never valued the Ibis to be worth the price tag and effort, and never felt gimped on agro in T4. Having East Cleave is of course an upgrade, but honestly, I couldn't play with a masked weapon, feel on the agro generation, and say "this is with East Cleave" or "this is with Blossoming Death". I dare say you couldn't on a Conqueror either, with the two weapons in discussion.
    Last edited by Shax84; 25th November 2014 at 18:09.

  3. #163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Caudilloo View Post
    I happen to know the people that tested the numbers they posted and they wouldn't post anything if they didn't test it thoroughly.

    Apart from that I believe you about the barb sword having more aggro. I've talked to some other main conqs that know their stuff and they all say the same thing.

    In a fight the +weapon damage can go much further then the things you mentioned Shax. Apart from the obvious passive buffs, most classes can give you temporary weapon damage buffs when you are in group with them. Barb/BS(vision and rune of aggression)/Ranger/Demo(caco and unholy hate)/guard/other conqs and I'm sure I forgot some.
    During a fight I think your weapon damage could be as high as an average of +100%. In that case it would explain why people consistently experience the barb 2H having a bit higher aggro.

    Thanks for the help again guys. I'll stick with barb one most of the time unless I need to get more survivability.
    This is best plan, more or less. As off tank you should only be holding the boss a short while, and the increased damage will have a better long term advantage in most fights anyways.
    I don't make points I make dents.

  4. #164

    Default

    Caudillo (and anyone reading ^^), I don't think you'll ever need more survivability. Even for Yakhmar T5 adds, you only need hitpoints; giving toses and BSes to land their -90% hit chance combo/spell. If they miss? Bubble up and you're good. ( I think you already know that, but I also wright for less exp players).

    In end game, we've reached a certain level when everything is about dps/aggro. there is no off tank as we usually understand it, there are tanks who switch aggro back and forth.
    For a conq, 55.5% armor and 15% hate are enough for 99% of the encounters as long as your dps is above 850.

    Below 850, most Dt's and guards will lock aggro on you anyway ^^

    So, my conclusion, without any maths behind, is: if you have the choice between two good weapons, pick the one you need to fit the numbers I gave (or above ofc). If you already hit those numbers, then choose dps.

  5. #165

    Default

    Hi, I've been following this tutorial and I think it helped me a lot but last night I test against the strawman the rotation of the OP and a simple rotation of GoDS4l+ feint attack8 + 3xFurious Strikes 5 +FAt9+2xFurious Strikes 5 and the dps I got is almost the same. I've done the test 5 times with each rotation. And the sometimes one is better and other times the other is better (only depended on critical hits).

    So can anybody explain me why switching weapons is so important?Maybe my test on a strawman is not the same than a real fight...

    PD:I've changed some points at the original build maybe I've lost something important for weapons switching: http://goo.gl/o0eRs0
    PD2: Or maybe is because the weapons I'm using: T2 conq 2HE and T2 1H barb axe+yag mace.
    -> DT:Stiraqvcrn; Necro:Munyidora; ToS:Stiraqvaa; Guard:Stirameco; BS: Stiraqcanya, ...

    If you see one Stira wipeing a group or a raid Its me

  6. #166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xiulo88 View Post
    Hi, I've been following this tutorial and I think it helped me a lot but last night I test against the strawman the rotation of the OP and a simple rotation of GoDS4l+ feint attack8 + 3xFurious Strikes 5 +FAt9+2xFurious Strikes 5 and the dps I got is almost the same. I've done the test 5 times with each rotation. And the sometimes one is better and other times the other is better (only depended on critical hits).

    So can anybody explain me why switching weapons is so important?Maybe my test on a strawman is not the same than a real fight...

    PD:I've changed some points at the original build maybe I've lost something important for weapons switching: http://goo.gl/o0eRs0
    PD2: Or maybe is because the weapons I'm using: T2 conq 2HE and T2 1H barb axe+yag mace.
    Weapon swapping is important because it dramatically increases your DPS. What figures are you getting with that rotation? I would imagine it could be improved significantly by making a few adjustments.

    HOFS is the lowest DPS combo you will be using with frequency and should be minimised.

    Bloodbath is the highest DPS combo and should be maximised.

    Feint Attack in my experience with the +25% feat is the ideal 'filler'.
    Last edited by Boesch; 22nd January 2015 at 08:43.

  7. #167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boesch View Post
    Weapon swapping is important because it dramatically increases your DPS. What figures are you getting with that rotation? I would imagine it is not very high.

    HOFS is the lowest DPS combo you will be using with frequency and should be minimised.

    Bloodbath is the highest DPS combo and should be maximised.

    Feint Attack in my experience with the +25% feat is the ideal 'filler'.
    I did around 650-700 dps (I don't have the logs here so I can't post them right now). With both rotations. LL hate gear mostly, defensive stance., burning standart+will of mettle. I didn't use Technics or standarst during the tests.
    -> DT:Stiraqvcrn; Necro:Munyidora; ToS:Stiraqvaa; Guard:Stirameco; BS: Stiraqcanya, ...

    If you see one Stira wipeing a group or a raid Its me

  8. #168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xiulo88 View Post
    I did around 650-700 dps (I don't have the logs here so I can't post them right now). With both rotations. LL hate gear mostly, defensive stance., burning standart+will of mettle. I didn't use Technics or standarst during the tests.
    That spec needs some tweaking for optimal dps. Even in a full tank spec you can do decent dps, which you depserately need since conks lack the raw aggro tools of the guard and would need to be in carnage to out dps/hate a dt.

    Something like http://is.gd/aiWoYM

    Swap the points from prot to armor if you are facing a physical damage fight.

    My small group rotation is gods3, fa8, bb7, ts, breach, fa9, and hofs5x2 or x1 with fa7 in, depending on shields

    My raid rotation eliminates breach since the debuff will likely be put on by someone else. gods3, fa8 bb7 ts fa9 hofs5

    Pop BoA, retaliation and irritate before last step of bb7 for quick pull aggro, otherwise cycle them into your rotation for sustained aggro

    I have a ramshackle mix of k6 and raid gear and i generally do between 800-1000 if i am maintank, up significantly if i am off tank and have time for frenzy
    I don't make points I make dents.

  9. #169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unutterable View Post
    That spec needs some tweaking for optimal dps. Even in a full tank spec you can do decent dps, which you depserately need since conks lack the raw aggro tools of the guard and would need to be in carnage to out dps/hate a dt.

    Something like http://is.gd/aiWoYM

    Swap the points from prot to armor if you are facing a physical damage fight.

    My small group rotation is gods3, fa8, bb7, ts, breach, fa9, and hofs5x2 or x1 with fa7 in, depending on shields

    My raid rotation eliminates breach since the debuff will likely be put on by someone else. gods3, fa8 bb7 ts fa9 hofs5

    Pop BoA, retaliation and irritate before last step of bb7 for quick pull aggro, otherwise cycle them into your rotation for sustained aggro

    I have a ramshackle mix of k6 and raid gear and i generally do between 800-1000 if i am maintank, up significantly if i am off tank and have time for frenzy
    Thanks for answering but ..I can't see anything in your build that improves swapping weapons more than mine. My doubt was why this incredible improvement I should had gotten from swapping weapons was not reflected on parses against the strawman.
    -> DT:Stiraqvcrn; Necro:Munyidora; ToS:Stiraqvaa; Guard:Stirameco; BS: Stiraqcanya, ...

    If you see one Stira wipeing a group or a raid Its me

  10. #170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xiulo88 View Post
    Thanks for answering but ..I can't see anything in your build that improves swapping weapons more than mine. My doubt was why this incredible improvement I should had gotten from swapping weapons was not reflected on parses against the strawman.
    Ah I see, I mistook the question

    Weapon swapping gives you three or four things, depending on rotation.

    First is Bloodbath. Blood bath does a lot of damage, and hits many times. It will proc a lot of GoDS hits, more than any 2h combo out there. Second is the bleed. The dots add up over several rotations, and can be feated in AAs. Third is off hand hits, basically free damage you can't get with a strictly 2h build, also featable in AA. Fourth is, depending on which rotation you use, is Breach. -15% mitigation is a hell of a thing, and the combo itself hits pretty hard.

    The build adjustment was to up your overall dps
    Last edited by Unutterable; 22nd January 2015 at 10:41.
    I don't make points I make dents.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •