fixing PvP crowd control imbalances

[Suctum]

It does belong on the list just as much as any other knockback. Repulse and LtP have their disadvantages too. one of it requiring 100's of AA's and the other it procing based on chance to get instant.

Repulse is NOT instant off the base. It isnt even instant with LtP feated. It becomes instant after 5 ranks of an AA skill. None of the other skills anyone mentions in this thread suffer from BOTH of those problems. They get the skills inately and they dont need to invest AA or take AA slots up to get those abilities.



Thats exactly what happened with repulse. Nobody cared after the initial nerf it saw in the first 2 months of the game. After that it was left alone until it could knock heavies back that were wearing heavy gear. Then the crying started. Its been nerfed 3 times since launch.

It just boils down to people playing heavys crying they are getting KB. That's all I'm getting from this thread. Almost every KB ability here never affected heavys and now they do.

How is chargeKB not OP when it refreshes on kills, but a timed ability like Repulse which requires 5 AA points (over 1500 hours of time training), requires proccs, and can only be used once every 30 seconds be OP?

If you focus kills from easiest to hardest, you can chargeKB an entire team in under 80 seconds. That's 1 KB every 13.5 seconds, and I have seen Nozcof and even Canyon do that plenty of times.

But Repulse is OP, and Snap Kick(easily double tapped)? LMAO

[spunq]

It just boils down to people playing heavys crying they are getting KB. That's all I'm getting from this thread. Almost every KB ability here never affected heavys and now they do.

How is chargeKB not OP when it refreshes on kills, but a timed ability like Repulse which requires 5 AA points (over 1500 hours of time training), requires proccs, and can only be used once every 30 seconds be OP?

If you focus kills from easiest to hardest, you can chargeKB an entire team in under 80 seconds. That's 1 KB every 13.5 seconds, and I have seen Nozcof and even Canyon do that plenty of times.

But Repulse is OP, and Snap Kick(easily double tapped)? LMAO

ok repulse might be abit hard but on sin its is easy dont even say its not. -.- on every melee its easy when u know the opening attack

[Mathieulombardi]

It just boils down to people playing heavys crying they are getting KB. That's all I'm getting from this thread. Almost every KB ability here never affected heavys and now they do.

How is chargeKB not OP when it refreshes on kills, but a timed ability like Repulse which requires 5 AA points (over 1500 hours of time training), requires proccs, and can only be used once every 30 seconds be OP?

If you focus kills from easiest to hardest, you can chargeKB an entire team in under 80 seconds. That's 1 KB every 13.5 seconds, and I have seen Nozcof and even Canyon do that plenty of times.

But Repulse is OP, and Snap Kick(easily double tapped)? LMAO

All three soldiers are op, but you still can't compare remorseless agression or fleet of foot refresh feats to the actual pom insta kb. Saying one thing (breakthrough) is op doesn't take away from the fact that pom aoe kb is broken too. And break through is a 5 point aa as well, so your argument is even more invalid...

Nozcof can move well, but anyone who's pvp from launch, esp since he never actually pvp'd til much after 1.05, can move just as well. Canyon doesn't even know how to strafe jump backwards, he walks backwards before he does a chargekb. It doesn't take a geniusx to tell what he's trying to do to counter it with a well timed double tap.

Overall, there are many things broken in pvp, cc imbalance is just one of them. Even when you get rid of insta kb's from demo pom ranger, there are issues with caster ccs vs melee cc's where their effects takes place 0.8s instead of 1s due to the animation differences. Just saying, fc's got a lot of work to do. Why they even made those instant ccs after a cc revamp that specifically dealt with it is beyond me.

[Suctum]

All three soldiers are op, but you still can't compare remorseless agression or fleet of foot refresh feats to the actual pom insta kb. Saying one thing (breakthrough) is op doesn't take away from the fact that pom aoe kb is broken too. And break through is a 5 point aa as well, so your argument is even more invalid...

Nozcof can move well, but anyone who's pvp from launch, esp since he never actually pvp'd til much after 1.05, can move just as well. Canyon doesn't even know how to strafe jump backwards, he walks backwards before he does a chargekb. It doesn't take a geniusx to tell what he's trying to do to counter it with a well timed double tap.

Overall, there are many things broken in pvp, cc imbalance is just one of them. Even when you get rid of insta kb's from demo pom ranger, there are issues with caster ccs vs melee cc's where their effects takes place 0.8s instead of 1s due to the animation differences. Just saying, fc's got a lot of work to do. Why they even made those instant ccs after a cc revamp that specifically dealt with it is beyond me.

You can't refresh Repulse on team kills though, and you don't have to wait for a procc for Breakthrough to work. You can even cancel the charge, get the KB effect, and still finish a combo before the person gets up if you know how too.

It's not the KB effect people complain about, it's the cheapness of charging someone running away at 20% health, doing enough dps on the charge alone to kill them, and being able to instantly to it again to someone else. The ability would be fine if it did not refresh on kills.

[Mathieulombardi]

Once again, you're talking about feat refreshers like remorseless or fleet of foot. In addition how many people in the game are left that actually know how to charge cancel. Maybe two or three people in US that still knows how to do it. In addition charge cancel vs insta cast, insta cast is a more advantageous mechanic. Hox can charge multiple times as well, without having team kills.

[spunq]

-demo is the strongest class from mages cose of all the instants (and please dont start if u dont play/know pvp properly..) and has already 2 many CCs/escape things so shouldnt have INSTANT that KBs everything instantly and is aoe so add small cast time less than wicked bolt tho.
-ranger trap is kinda meh since its instant and can be done anywhere without any cost. but its ok since its rangers "only" good cc
-snapkick.. really? easiest combo to avoid on sin (dont bulls*** me lurvi )
-conq got repulse without dmg for 0.5sec cast is way 2 op for such a tank/opdps class but can be predicted for experienced players. charge KB is kinda well if u see conq charging u can still
doubletap it but it shouldnt be AoE tho.

so at the end learn to avoid these and u will be fine and it is EASY. I myself cant really understand most of u since im really experienced player and dont find much bad things from those classes every class has their op side anway.
would be nice if my word would be respected

EDIT, conq retalation/dancing steel is more op than the kb itself

[Lurvi]

Something that came to mind is whitehit differences and doubletapping. Sins have super fast whitehits and will have greater chances of getting a doubletap off in time. If you're a 2handed melee on the other hand you'll be locked in whitehit animation unable to doubletap until whitehit animation is over.
For casters it's even easier to doubeltap, they can always doubletap whenever they want.

This should be looked into aswell if they want to change doubletaps. Let doubletaps cancel whitehits as you can cancel a combo or spell.

[yuisoku]

Snapkick is one of the easiest to avoid. It knocks u after animation is done which is not so fast, unlike new khitai knockbacks which knocks you before animation is even starting. Khitai knocks are instant knock with pre step, nothing more

Snapkick was fast before 2010 khitai knocks, now its just lol compared to them

I agree with Slith about snapkick

[Bibik]

Snapkick is okay, it's the fact (like Lurvi said), you get that annoying 1sec-root if you double-tap it. And being rooted against a sin means sure death for many class.

At least fix that and we can talk about balancing instant kb's.

[mrcorp]

IMO:

1. only rogues, casters and priests should have a CC. Heavies already have the best armor, the most health, and incredible DPS. Getting CCed and killed before one gets up should not be possible by a heavy on a priest IMO.

2. Each class should get 1 CC except priests who really need to be free for healing (don't get me started on how healing should be revamped). It should represent the class it is the counter to. For example, sins should get silence because they should be going after priests. It should only be available every 60 seconds.

3. There should be a CC immunity for all CCs to end the chain that occurs today. Once you are cced, but any means, you should be left alone for at least 15 seconds to LoS or heal.

4. There should be no CC breaks outside of rogues. Just like Hide, I hate the fact every class is treated equal when classes aren't equal.

5. All CCs should not be equal. Priests and casters should get AOE CCs. Rogues should get single target. TO match their dps.

6. All CCs should be instant (.5 seconds or less)

My bigger issue that I see in PVP is this. I CC a demo, I can hurt him bad with in the time he becomes un-stunned. I CC a guard, I don't even scratch him in the same amount of time. Perhaps adjust the CC times to the class you are applying to. Perhaps speed up the anti CC for classes with less hit points if you want to be fair to all classes. Otherwise remove CC removals from heavies.

Personally, I hate CCs. But I know they are an important part of the game.

Also this opinion is 100% PVP perspective and 100% my opinion only.

I guess after reading this, I would just rewrite the game as follows:
1. Increase healing, lower dps from priests.
2. Reduce CCs and their impact to PVP
3. Remove CCs from heavies and lower dps.


But now I am off topic.